Buying a studio

[Kajun]

OK, I'm out of the loop with respect to hardware/software audio packages. What would I buy? Currently I have a soundcard that wouldn't do the job, a half decent XP2000+ system, and a Yamaha SY22 synth. We'd need to be able to record live instruments, but the majority would be electronic.

Something like Kyma isn't an option. Upper limit of £1000 spend, but that's highly unlikely as a first stage until we hear results.

Recommend:
software
midi interface
soundcard
other hardware

Would love to get back into the game, but it's a big leap.

[Penfold]

I agree, it's quite an investment. Probably best to consider getting a solid infrastructure there and worry about soft-synths, plugins and outboard later.

software: A combination of Cubase SX and Fruity (loops) Studio could cover you for electronic and live stuff nicely as they interface perfectly - a bit typical maybe but provides the space for expansion and scope for wide application. Not worth going for Logic now if you're on a PC (although it might be going cheap now) as there will be no more updates/new versions.
But, that's £500 gone already. Or get Cubase SL for ~150 less with slighty fewer tracks/options (probably a better idea to begin with as I believe there's an upgrade route).
Depends if you like things like Reason or the more design oriented programs and would rather work that way than conventional audio+midi sequencing.

midi interface/soundcard: I would go for an all-in-one card. That way you know it's going to work together!
(Reasonably priced) Companies to consider: M-Audio, Terratec and Echo.

other hardware: Somewhat open-ended. Some thoughts. A small mixer (Behringer or Soundcraft E-series) perhaps if you decide for a multi I/O card or want to mix inputs on the fly easily? Microphone + preamp (which could be used for guitars/basses etc)?

Hope that's of some use, and promotes ideas for researching the best to buy. I would say the soundcard is the most important point to get right for your own needs. You need to consider whether you'll ever need to record more than one (stereo)source at a time, is onboard MIDI sound a requirement, do you want the ability to expand or send out timecode and all that crazy stuff etc etc. Then you can tick off unsuitable cards and make a list of those that do what you need.

[Kajun]

software: A combination of Cubase SX and Fruity (loops) Studio could cover you for electronic and live stuff nicely as they interface perfectly - a bit typical maybe but provides the space for expansion and scope for wide application. Not worth going for Logic now if you're on a PC (although it might be going cheap now) as there will be no more updates/new versions.

Never really worked out why it's beneficial to use both Cubase and FL. Is it simply because they both have different approaches/abilities or is there some useful in using the two side by side?

But, that's £500 gone already. Or get Cubase SL for ~150 less with slighty fewer tracks/options (probably a better idea to begin with as I believe there's an upgrade route).

Cubasis is not an option, presumably? SL is only £235 actually which is much more manageable...

Depends if you like things like Reason or the more design oriented programs and would rather work that way than conventional audio+midi sequencing.

Haven't had a chance to play with Reason demo properly yet, but I get the impression I'll stick with the old skool.

midi interface/soundcard: I would go for an all-in-one card. That way you know it's going to work together!
(Reasonably priced) Companies to consider: M-Audio, Terratec and Echo.

M-Audio 2496? Or an Audigy 2 ZS Platinum?

other hardware: Somewhat open-ended. Some thoughts. A small mixer (Behringer or Soundcraft E-series) perhaps if you decide for a multi I/O card or want to mix inputs on the fly easily? Microphone + preamp (which could be used for guitars/basses etc)?

Mixer would eventually be required, but for the moment I've got my 4-track. I'll need to look into microphones though, a good vocal/brass one would be required eventually.

You need to consider whether you'll ever need to record more than one (stereo)source at a time, is onboard MIDI sound a requirement, do you want the ability to expand or send out timecode and all that crazy stuff etc etc.

MIDI is definitely required, if only as an input, but whether it'd need to be onboard or via a USB box, I don't know. It's unlikely that I'd be recording more than one source ... ever, actually. Thanks, Penfold, it's got me started.

Will need some monitors too...

Basically, it looks like to make a decent effort I'd need:

Cubase SL - £235
M-Audio s/c with MIDI - £125
Active speakers - ~£100

= £455

Plus potentially,
FL Studio Producer - ~£100
Microphone - £40-80

= £595-635

Think I'll have to start a Paypal appeal.

[Penfold]

Never really worked out why it's beneficial to use both Cubase and FL. Is it simply because they both have different approaches/abilities or is there some useful in using the two side by side?

I guess it's just like having a great big outboard sampler running at a 1/10th of the cost. Essentially replace Fruity with your drum-machine of choice- be it using something like Reaktor, ReBirth or Battery.

Because they (all) sync well and Fruity handles drums a) well and b) logically, it works as a productive combination. Still, doesn't stop using the drum-map in Cubase to generate beats i.e. in the case of using something like Battery. Or if you prefer to work with static loops.

Personal beat-creation preference I suppose.

M-Audio 2496? Or an Audigy 2 ZS Platinum?

The M-Audio would be great. With the Audigy you're comprimising with it being more of a consumer-level card and not designed to be punished by something like Cubase running flat out. That said, you want to consider whether you want things like EAX and surround sound - because once you step into a pro-audio card you have to leave them behind.

[heavy-rotation]

What he said, but personally I'm not really a fan of FL. Its miles better than it used to be, but meh. Agree particularly on the soundcard bit... the audigy 2 was ok.... but when it came to VSTi programming the lag starts to build up (and the crashes).

Unfortunately the route I'd take would break your budget a bit, as I'd go for some dedicated VSTi's for sampling and synthesis (Mind you, I'm slightly biased as I love Native Instruments products ... I wish they'd hurry up with Intakt though).

[Kajun]

heavy: dolphin have Intakt for sale, but maybe just a pre-order?

Thanks for the advice both. I'm not a huge fan of FL either but that said I haven't experienced the competition, so it's time for some demo downloads methinks. Reaktor seems a bit out of my league price wise. But we'll see how it goes.

Opinion on Cubasis?

[heavy-rotation]

Reaktor is a bit of a mission to learn anyway unless you really are interested in getting technical (how synths and fx units operate at the most basic level... building your own delay units etc). Its pretty cool if you're into that kind of thing though , and there is a huge online database of instuments that people have made, but thats no fun .

Slightly less complicated (well, a lot, but its still not simple) but also highly recomended is Absynth.


Personally I've not used Cubasis so I can't comment I'm afraid.

[Penfold]

Slightly less complicated (well, a lot, but its still not simple) but also highly recomended is Absynth.

Ooo yes, Absynth is great for that open-ended ability. I had a play with the Mac version, and really impressed by the presets and the parameters you can change - particularly the way the modulation knob can be applied. Haven't had a chance to see it running at an in-depth level. Ever used Tassman? That was supposed to be pretty good for the design-type synths.

re: Cubasis; I couldn't find a feature chart for it, but it's a good program to get started on (I used to use it and the 'AV' version) and has the majority of useful functions that the other version have. Not sure if there's the ReWire capability in there, but it works with VSTis so you're okay for syncing with most external programs of late. No upgrade route from it unfortunately.
Iirc there's no option for master plugins, and no eqs on the individual channels (not a great loss really). Not sure though.
On the SX/SL trip; having looked at the SX/SL comparison chart(PDF), SX is a bit of an overkill for regular use really.

[Kajun]

Will come back to this, but ... on the other hand of the M-Audio is the Terratec w/ breakout box.

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/d2/?page= ... tegory_id=

[heavy-rotation]

Will come back to this, but ... on the other hand of the M-Audio is the Terratec w/ breakout box.

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/d2/?page= ... tegory_id=

Wha?

[Kajun]

Well, it's 60 more but it's got more bits to it and so I'm wondering which would be preferable in an Ideal World. Apologies for the broken Hispanic earlier, it wasn't my fault.

[Penfold]

The 6Fire with breakout box (actually a front panel iirc) is supposed to be pretty excellent. From what I've read it comes recommended (a 9/10 in Computer Music magazine). A friend of mine had one running in one of those dudey Carillon boxes and highly recommended the card too - git.
Like the Audigy, but designed with actually doing computer music in mind.

[Kajun]

FM seem pretty happy with it and readers voted it best s/c of 2002... certainly seems a bit more flexible in terms of the future with more ins/outs than the M-Audio.

[heavy-rotation]

How much is that? (with box/panel)

[Kajun]

£170. For some reason Dolphin show a picture without the box/panel. There's a card only version which retails around £100 I believe.

I certainly don't have the spending power to go for what heavy's purchased, which would be ideal, but the Terratec seems to be a good middle ground allowing for enough flexibility to get started. The M-Audio 2496 is a nice card but the in/out situation is a bit too rigid, perhaps: essentially I'd need to either keep switching adaptors or use a mixer if we had both a line-in and mic attached. 6fire solves that problem and gives some nice digi ports too.

The M-Audio probably comes up trumps in terms of audio? But at the moment features seem more attractive...

[Kajun]

[heavy-rotation]

Yeah, the 6Fire looks pretty nice

I'd expect slighlty better midi performance from the M-Audio (as well as sound possibly, like you say), but not enough to make it the obvious winner.

[Ice]

I'm a bit sick of my PC crashing every time I'm recording using N-Track... Any idea how I'd find out if it's my soundcard or some shitty software conflict screwing things up?

[heavy-rotation]

Funnily enough, I was just coming here to ask what other sequencers people have used and their thoughts on them as I'm sick of cubASE CRASHING WHEN I PRESS THE SAVE BUTTON

[Ice]

The odd things is... It isn't only when I'm recording... Primarily yeah, but sometimes it happens when I stop recording and my pc is just sitting there... And AFAIK can tell my PC is 100% virus free.

[heavy-rotation]

What soundcard do you have?

[heavy-rotation]

Just picked up a Akai S2000 sampler recently for a bit over £100... not bad as that is about 10% of the price it was 7 or 8 years ago

Its rather fun, moreso than software samplers... and it actually samples unlike most of them

[Kajun]

Good price that.

[Kajun]

What I eventually ended up with is:

Cakewalk Sonar 7 Studio XL (and then 7 Producer)
Tascam VL-X5 monitors
M-Audio Oxygen 49 MIDI keyboard
EMU 1212M Soundcard (came with Proteus X/Emulator X)
Soundcraft Compact 4 Mixer

Which all fits together nicely, and I never get round to using it as much as I would like. I've got a decent number of projects half finished, they just need to a bit of tarting up and "mastering" (like I have any idea what I'm doing there).