[GPG] DGV's choice: Ozzy Osbourne - Mr. Crowley

A forum archive for GPG songs more than 6 months old to help keep the place tidy.
Ice
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Post by Ice » Fri Dec 13, 2002 10:42 pm

Feel free to move on from my point of view guys. I'm really sorry I've had an arse week and haven't had time to learn anything more than the main riff. I feel that's pretty shoddy as the rest of you have all posted an extremely competent version. I just haven't had enough time for my playing lately...

nine-bar
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Post by nine-bar » Sat Dec 14, 2002 2:53 am

Sorry for not posting as earlier as i would wish as its a bit hectic at the minute, i have time to play and hour a day and thats it. Also got stuff to sort out for chrimbo etc, ive had a loook at this one ut unfortunatly ive ben unable to record it,ill try my best to get the next one down, im just a tad busy atm =)

Wolf11
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Post by Wolf11 » Sat Dec 14, 2002 4:00 pm

IceBus wrote: as the rest of you have all posted an extremely competent version.



Not according to some people :P lol.


I didnt mean to hassle you m8 ..sorry....Just It,s always the way I,m either flat out or doing nowt .....so when I,m free I like to get on with it....as I,m pretty sure I dont devote nearly enough time to learning the solo,s...Although I think a lot of that is lack of patience lol.


This is one song I,m gonna re record witha better midi ..when I find one as I quite enjoyed learning it...and I think with a lot of praccy I could possibly play the solo,s properly.


Wolf;)

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Post by Ice » Sat Dec 14, 2002 4:06 pm

You're not hassling in the least mate, I'm really glad you're enjoying it and I don't want to be holding the rest of you back. It's just that at the minute I'm going through a really lean period guitar wise. I've been struggling to find inspiration to pick up my guitar, and so I've been playing less, which has led to me not being able to play worth a damn. The vicious circle ends up where I am now - with no time to practice and my skills barely passable lead-wise :( I'm trying to get back up to speed but I really don't know how to get my speed and accuracy up enough to compete with everyone else on the solo front atm...

Feel free to post the next choice though guys - I don't want my dead wood to spread.

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Post by Wolf11 » Sat Dec 14, 2002 4:36 pm

:( Peter ...I think like a lot of ppl starting out your placing too much Emphasis on soloing and playing fast.

When I started out (ok I had played violin for a long time ) I learnt a few chords and formed a band at school...we mainly played Iron maiden /AC/DC covers...the bits we couldnt play that well we bluffed.We got to support a lot of good bands cos they couldnt believe how good we were for 14/15 (it is more the norm now..but not so much back then )..I only really played Rythmn guitar and sang for the first 4 or so years.

It was when I joined another band the other guitarist refused to play anyhting other than rythmn .....so I vaguely taught myself to solo..but we tended to learn a new song within about a week of it being released ..so I just learnt the solo as best as poss by ear ( a bad habit I still have )...

The problem is now My rythmn playing is crap as I spend all my time playing scales etc trying to also improve my soloing....so I know what your going through....you,ve only been playinmg a year ..so have a better excuse than me...although I get very frustrated that I actually used to be a lot better before I buggered my wrist (although I cant remember how or why I was ) but I just was .

When I hear Darrens solo,s /versions of GPG ..I have to admit part of me gets depressed (i,m human after all ) cos I just wish I could play the solo,s as well as him ....when I,m doodling myslef I,m not too bad :oops: as I dont have to remember someone elses pattern.

But I also see his playing as a great benchmark to wrk towards :bg: ...cos my attitude is if he can do..then so can I ( eventually).


What I,m really trying to say is take your time m8 ..I,ve been playing years ..although most of them I never practised..we were either gigging /band rehersal or getting pissed. I realise now had I actually practised over those years..I,d be pretty good..which I find very depressing.

Your main skill ..which you DGV and of course Bigpops have is you all seem to be able to listen to the original far better than me..I,m dyxslecic (sp) and always wonder if that has anything to do with it.

If it was easy in my opinion it wouildnt be fun..although sometimes I'd like joe90,s machine and Malmsteen /vai etc ..so I could get there brain pattern.

imo.....learn some AC/DC off pat...the solo,s are nice blues ish numbers ..and IMO they still rock.to play them well is more difficult than ppl think.

Wolf;)

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Post by Ice » Sat Dec 14, 2002 4:52 pm

Ah AC/DC another band who got me into metal (I got Ballbreaker when I was about 9yrs old lol) :)

The thing is, I can get fairly passable rhythm now (I practise a variety of strumming etc. every day) and can accompany anything I hear with a mix of barre/power chords. My problem is I can't improvise that well even when I'm making it up on the spot. I can sort of do slow bluesy improvs (I got a free CD with Total Guitar or Guitarist lately with blues backing tracks)... Where I struggle is note choice when playing at any speed or when skipping strings - unless I'm sticking rigidly within a penatonic box (of which I know only the major and one minor...) or going up and down one or two strings.

Its just something I really want to work on as I feel it's the most expressive part of playing guitar when you can do it right. I too really struggle with remembering complex/long solos while trying to play them at speed and tbh if I wanted to learn one for GPG it'd take weeks as I have to start really slowly and work up speed gradually. I think it's partly my right hand that lets me down as sometimes I feel like I'm not fully control of where it's going, especially when I'm string skipping with economy picking and I don't think I keep my picking pattern the same each time I play a riff.

Part of the reason I can half do solos in the songs I pick myself is that I know what they sound like, so whenever I try to play it or learn it, I have some sort of reference point with which to compare what I'm playing and see if the tab is right. I never have enough time to listen to other peoples selections enough to get the solos ingrained and that it probably where some of my problem with learning them for GPG comes from. When you're lacking that and the time to practise, it's fairly horrific :)

I really do look up to both you Darren and DGV as in every single one of you I see places where you outdo me each week, and I know where to go a bit. I just wish I could get to the level where I have the speed to play the solos perfectly if I can only learn them accurately... ATM sometimes I don't even know if I'd have the speed even if I knew them off pat...

I also really need to work on singing while playing as atm thats something I can't do lol...

So as you say there's room for improvement, but atm it's a case of where and how to start.

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Post by Wolf11 » Sat Dec 14, 2002 5:12 pm

The way I taught myself to Improvise...was bascially to pretty much play what I wanted ..where ever I felt like it....eventually you start to hear the key and hit less and less bum notes.I,m nearly there now.....I restrict myself a bit so I stay roughtly in key ..but tbo dont be afraid.

I got into this habit cos live after you,ve made a cock up....1 minute later nobody rembers..if you stop ppl do..but as long as you keep going very few ppl do....just have a reference note to go back to each time.

I,m sure it,s an unorthodox method...but Fuji Yamamoto (i think that right) told me although he was classically trained that was the way he taught himself to shred.

Admittitably it doesnt help me much with gpg..but it stops you being afriad of playing bum notes.

I cant get out of this habit easily thjough..but am trying to force myslef to learn more patterns ..and get al the main modes learnt off pat (something which I really struggle with)....

Given enough time I might also learn the patterns ..but I do also enjoy doodling lol....

My right hand is also my problem ..I hardly ever used to pick it was all legato..after listening to loads of Greg Howe .But I am really trying to nail it as well..as it make you more accurate.


I,m trying to devote at least an hour a day to practise..but it,s quite difficult somedays :(


Wolf;)

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Post by Ice » Sat Dec 14, 2002 5:18 pm

We'll get through this together :D I'll endeavour to practice at least 1 hour a day as well from now on. Hard ass practice too - scales and improv - not just doodling :)

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Post by Wolf11 » Sat Dec 14, 2002 5:33 pm

:bg: Yeah and if we take it in turns at spamming Bigpops while the other practises we,ll get better lol.Only joking.I wish he lived closer ..cos I,d ask him for a few lessons :) ....but I would nt want to drive to Sheffield lol .

I keep thinking about lessons actually ..but cant afford it at the mo..more for the theory than actaul technique..well I supppose hoiw they relate to each other .


On a sort of related not ..what size Plectrum do you lot use....I,ve been using a Jim dunlop medium and heavy..seems to me all the Guitar.com boys /shredders use a really thick pleccy..I though about those Jazz3 I think there called..but dont know what diff they,d make.



Wolf;)

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Post by Ice » Sat Dec 14, 2002 5:41 pm

Pointy picks have really improved my confidence for intricate lead lines. It might be 70% in my head as theres only a tiny bit extra over regular Fender picks, but to me it makes a difference. I use Dunlop Tortex Sharps 1.5mm. They're similar in shape to Jazz III's but easier for me to source via the net and also slightly bigger part to hold so less fiddly :) I find heavy gauge give a fuller cleaner sound and you can get a strummy effect by just loosening the pick in your grip. Its easy to get it sound softer but its hard to get bite from a really round thin pick I find... I think 98% of plectrum choice is down to personal taste and what works for you :)

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Post by Bigpops » Sat Dec 14, 2002 7:25 pm

Finally we get to the plectrums.

I think i've used them all, in one way or another. Look!!

Image

I worked my way up from the thinnest, to 1.14 torex's (i did try a 2mm one too). Then i got the sharp version. Then i couldn't them anymore, to i filed down some normal ones, to make them pointy. Then i was looking for some Jazz IIIs (after hearing that Marc Seal uses them), and i found the *deep breath* Dunlop Tortex Black Gold Jazz Sharps (1.14mm), and eventually, Jazz III's.

Now, i use the Jazz III, or the tortex Jazz sharps. After the torex's are all blunt, i'll be getting Jazz III's exclusively.
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Post by Wolf11 » Sun Dec 15, 2002 10:47 am

Actually I think I may have stumbled over som ething here lol.


Cos after looking at Bigpops pleccies And looking at mine I realise mine are all round and blunt.

TBo I bought my guitar in about may and Havnt changed the strings at all lol ..and I,m still using the same 3 pleccies.(i,m a skint git ya see )

After looking at your filed down versions though it got me thinking that that might be why I,m pretty sloppy......when I used to gig a lot ..I changed strings about weekly and got free Plectrums .:)



So for the short term I,l have to do some filing at wrk ..to see if that helps..and I might even change strings.....how often do you guys ??


I keep also thinking about putting better pickups on myu cheapie Ibanez ..as that might give more clarity ....keep thinking about EMG,s..but dont know if I want to go down that route .

btw...who is Marc Seal ..never heard of him \;(

Wolf;)

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Post by DGV » Sun Dec 15, 2002 11:08 am

Wow, picks... I've never actually bought a pick. This summer when I decided to start playing with a pick I just happened to have this pick around. I'm still using it, btw. It's probably the thinnest pick I've ever seen and I've worn the tip off till it's completely blunt. Maybe I should actually think of trying some new ones out? SInce I've only been playing with a pick for about half a year, it's one of my biggest problems, since the left hand seems to be working much better. My right hand started to improve consistently about a month ago when I started doing the chromatic 1234 excercise. Or actually, it was alternating that same excercise into 1-2/1-3/1-4/2-3/2-4/2-4/3-4/1-2-3/2-3-4/1-2-3-4 which has helped me most. Could be somebody mentioned doing that here? Can't remember. Anyway, that's helping my left hand work more independently which helps a lot and it's consistently helping my right hand. Also, whenever there's a great, quick lick, I keep those in mind and try to work on them. I haven't been doing pure scales for ages (or at least a month :) ) I'm still practicing that one pentatonic lick from Running Free and then there's that one lick in the second verse of Mr. Crowley I keep doing and stuff like that. Actually, the pinnacle of my learning thus far has been the fact that I alternate picked that lick in Mr. Crowley, didn't use h'ons or p'offs. :o As you see, I'm also striving to get going on the solo front. And improvising, since that's something I'm totally clueless at. I've read some theory and learned the odd scale pattern, but altogether, I've always mostly been a pick a song, find a tab and play it kinda guy. Chromatic practicing is a new thing for me. Some time soon I'll take the time to get to fully understand my instrument.

And Marc Seal is this great guy who has online lessons. Unfortunately they aren't free anymore, not expensive, mind, but just not free. Seems like a brilliant player and fairly good instructor too.

Wolf11
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Post by Wolf11 » Sun Dec 15, 2002 11:30 am

Yeah I think it would definatley be worth your while getting a few Pleccies DGV m8....I really dont know much about the subject..but most ppl seem to use Thin for Rythmn (strumming)..and thick for Lead stuff.


I remember when I first started I used a 2p coin lol :D


Wolf;)


P.s I,ve looked for Jazz 111 online but cant find anywhere that sells them...or there just hiding lol.

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Post by Bigpops » Sun Dec 15, 2002 1:18 pm

On Marc Seal:

He's a GIT graduate, who now teaches 40 hours a week, and did some live online guitar lessons called 'Guitar Mania'. These stopped around may time, as Guitar Centre (a music chain store in the states) came in and wanted to run the show. Anyway, i have them all (but 11) on two DVD-R's, so i'm okay 8).

His lessons are about to start again, as 'Guitar School'.

These won't be live, like the others (so i won't have to stay up while 1am), and they start on Tuesday (17th December), all being well. You can stay up to date on the progress of this at: www.marcseal.com/forum


On string changing: I change the ones on my Strat (my most played guitar) about every 8 weeks. My Jem and PRS, i change about every 4 months, because they're played less. Then there's my Samick, which i hardly play now. I keep that for sentimental reasons, as it was the only guitar i had for the first 5 years i played (after i sold my first Squier strat). They'll be lucky if they get changed once a year.

As ofr Jazz III's http://www.stringsdirect.co.uk/commerce ... ls&pid=731

Some bloke even wrote a review!! Dunno who he is though ;)
I don't know know the difference between the nomal and hard ones. They're both 1.38mm and Nylon.
Last edited by Bigpops on Sun Dec 15, 2002 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ice
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Post by Ice » Sun Dec 15, 2002 1:47 pm

I change my strings about once a month, but then I'm only playing one guitar so I find they go a lot faster... Here's a pic of my plectrum btw:-

Image

They are a bit worn down though... For some reason I can never throw out a plectrum though even if it's worn down a bit (as those are) as I feel other people would look at it and think, what's wrong with it?

Wolf11
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Post by Wolf11 » Sun Dec 15, 2002 2:39 pm

I* think I must try a pointy pleccie then :)..probably wont make much odd..but then maybe it will .Phycologically it might help.


Thanks for the Links Darren ...I have a look at the Seal :)....althogh I think I would really fancy paying :( ..or is he that good..compared to otgher books/videos etc



Wolf;)

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Post by Wolf11 » Sun Dec 15, 2002 2:44 pm

Also your review made me chuckle..took me a few seconds to click lol :bg:


Wolf;)

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Post by Wolf11 » Sun Dec 15, 2002 3:25 pm

Thanks to Bigpops link..I,ve just ordered 12 pleccies....5 Jazz III and the rest assoted one,s to see what I might like..tbo a pleccy has really been for me what was lying around...so maybe I,m at a stage it might make a difference who knows.


This Marc seal looks quite cool....I,ll keep myu eye on his forum..if youi ever get A DVD recoreder Darren ..I would,nt mind a copy of those ..I,d pay for the DVD,s and Postage of course :) ..cos although a lot of these guitar books and videos seem vaguely the same...you can usually pick up one or two things ..



Wolf;)

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Post by DGV » Sun Dec 15, 2002 7:57 pm

Guitar Mania stopped? Wow, that just goes to show how GPG has taken over as my main source for internet guitar learning! :) Boy, am I out of date or what?

As for the plectrums, I've never actually given them any thought. If thicker are better for lead playing, I should probably give it a go. Maybe I'll try different shapes, too. As I have limited experience playing with picks I wouldn't have known what suits me before actually playing some time. I think now I'm at a level where I can start building personal preferences. :wink:

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Post by Wolf11 » Sun Dec 15, 2002 8:27 pm

Thanks for sorting my piccy out Peter :)

Wolf;)

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Post by Ice » Sun Dec 15, 2002 9:18 pm

Heheheh np matey ;)

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Post by Bigpops » Mon Dec 16, 2002 7:30 pm

Who's up next?
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Ice
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Post by Ice » Mon Dec 16, 2002 7:32 pm

Looks like you're next on the active roster mate ;)

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Post by DGV » Mon Dec 16, 2002 7:57 pm

And to think that I stole Mr. Crowley from you. :P

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